underwater, in other words, they owe more than what it's worth. then the banks don't want to refinance. that's dodd frank at work. we have president obama to thank for this very bad law. we need to let the free market work and if the free market can work, this thing will right its own ship. remember, we're two years into a recovery, and we're continuing to rack up 1.3 billion in debt every year. trust me. this will turn around very, very quickly. it will make people's head swim how quickly we can turn this around if we send a signal that we're going to bring some sanity and normal see back into the economy. >> we don't have too much time. let me ask you another quick question. foreign aid. a lot of americans don't like to pay foreign aid. why don't we keep it here. on the other hand, we've used foreign aid very effectively to buy problems and help with problems around the country, make it a little more safe. in terms of looking at the whole issue of foreign aid, what would you, for instance, want to keep?