and the facts are that there have been tens of -- i don't know if it's 10 trillion, but close, spent on great society programs. and the benefit to eliminating black poverty has been 2 or 3%. that doesn't add up. under president obama, it's 17% plus unemployment. not a good performance. yet you continue to say the same thing over and over and over again, that you support these programs -- wait -- that you support these programs despite the massive expenditure that doesn't produce results. that could be brainwashing. i'll give you the last word. >> bill, clearly i think you and herman cain are in complete denial when it comes to the impact that these programs have had. you can't draw a straight line to the really unfortunate and overwhelming profit numbers that we saw come out a few weeks ago to these policies not working. >> bill: you can't? >> we're dealing with an economic crisis, but greatest than anything we've seen.