communication, a plan that wasn't necessarily thought through but wasn't necessarily sinister? >> well, it was intentional. it wasn't well thought through. it was a cowboy mentality, and a person was murdered as a result of it. but the bad thing about it is that people at the grassroots as opposed to people up in washington that thought the program up, they tried to get atf to stop it because it wasn't going to work, and the prophesy became true with the murder of border patrol agent terry. jenna: who do you want to take responsibility for this? >> well, that's our main question. i want the person that's responsible at the highest level of government to come forth and say who he was -- jenna: is that eric holder? the he's the head of the justice department. >> you know, i'd like to say i know that for a fact, but i don't. we don't know how high up in justice this goes. that's the whole motive of our investigation, or at least part of the motive of our investigation. jenna: senator grassley, it's always nice to talk to you.