of perry? >> high energy. i think he is a winner. i think this is the kind of person who bridges the gap right now, the divide within the republican ranks as they look for a nominee to take on president obama because he has the tea party appeal component to his speaking -- he is a good speaker. and the second thing is, as head of the republican governor's association, a three-time governor, he has raised a lot of money and has a pretty good reputation as a politician. so, he actually is a bridge between tea party and establishment republican and could go a long way. and if you want to just break it down very quickly, he hurts romney in this regard because romney has no tea party sparkle to him. rick perry does. he hurt someone like a tim pawlenty who has failed to gain traction in general but really, if you have rick perry, what are you doing at tim pawlenty for. michele bachmann. >> bill: i was going to say have you got to assume michele bachmann lock up tea party vote