listen. >> he must, indeed, know what is going on so to speak in the the bunker. he must have been taking part in talks with qaddafi himself and the people around qaddafi the last two or three weeks and knows what the strong and weak points are. >> and that former ambassador also said, shep, that it is now time for moussa koussa to speak up loudly and describe exactly why he felt he had to leave the qaddafi regime and hopefully by doing that he can encourage others to defect and bring qaddafi's regime crumbling down around him, shep. >> shepard: the libyan government, of course, is downplaying all this, right? >> the libyan government today in fact said this is simply the action of a sick and tired old man. it was in their words much ado about nothing. listen. >> this is not reflective on individuals no matter how high ranking they are. we have millions of people