tantaros and ellis henican. michael moore, helping the public service unions or hurting them? >> absolutely helping these people. you are not the target demo. there is nothing you are going to say that's going to convince you. let me tell threw are an awful lot of americans listen to him and understand they're listening to a guy who is able to boil down complex issues in a way that people can understand them and say, listen, the middle class is being squeezed here. you guys are suffering. and if one side has governor walker, you know what? maybe the other side needs a michael moore. >> bill: all of the curating polls, you know what they are. >> i do. >> bill: show that most americans think that moore is a loon. >> well. >> bill: they all do. you are in the court of public opinion, trying to get independents on your side. most americans think is he a loon and then just says loony things like america is not broke. there is plenty of money and everybody knows, including you, that's not true. >> you have got to understand his role here. >> bill: wait. i'm listening to his words. >> i'm going to describe to you