somebody there had a gun other than the crazed gunman. >> the person fired so quickly. and, again that is part of the problem. until 2004, you could not have a clip that held more than ten rounds and after the assault weapons ban expired you can get the expanded clips and he got the rounds off before anyone reacted and that is part of the problem. >> the murder rate has fallen nationally since 2004 and there is no study that goes in support of what he says, and i wish there were magic bullets and what happens is, many times, unfortunately the gun control laws are unproductive, when you ban a beggun, the criminal, it makes it easier to commit the crimes, if i ban guns at virginia tech, a law abiding teacher who can carry it anyplace else in the state, he -- >> talk about arizona, john,