as a governor, and they're not acceptable. jon: tom tancredo is running for governor on the american constitution party. we did invite the other two candidates, john hickenlooper and dan maes, to participate. they were unable to join us today. jenna: well, the foreclosure mess shattering millions of american dreams as people across this country are losing their homes, and the whole thing now a massive nationwide scandal. foreclosers all over this country halted while paperwork is vetted for mistakes or even fraud. but how did this whole thing start? a politician? a banking executive? how about two regular folks who started poking around when things just department add up? they're our guests today, activist lisa epstein and michael red monday join us from florida. so, lisa, what was the first sign that something department add up? didn't add up? is. >> well, i was in contact with