it's not necessarily a quagmire but if we start engaging in talks with the taliban, we can make it into a quagmire. takes between the north vietnamese and u.s. started in 1967. they didn't end until 1973. they extended the problem. they compounded problem. they doesn't resolve it. jenna: let's talk about the talks. why do you see them as a tipping point in afghanistan? >> the way the taliban doesn't see the talks to resolve the war. not a compromise. no insurgency in history see a compromise. they see talks as method of warfare by other means. you heard people saying now we're finally getting offensive against the taliban. they're under pressure. we killed dozens of their commanders. so why then would the taliban want to engage in talks right now? as a way of forestalling further u.s. military action. same thing by the way happened in vietnam. we had the strategy talk and fight. we would talk a bit, fight a bit. when the fighting got hard for the north vietnamese they would be more serious at negotiating table.