but i find this interesting. 1974, that's nixon-ford, is it not? here comes, it's not a democratic problem. it is an american progressive problem. food stamps programs, right? goes up, comes down a little bit, 1981, starts, goes up a little bit and then comes back down. this is the low home energy assistance program. sky rockets up, 1997, this s-chip. but you'll see here again, at the end of clinton, it kind of comes down and that's when clinton-- >> gridlock, a republican congress that says no, but look how little it went down. >> well, the trend is up. we thought that was so-- it's going now up, we can't graph it in the studio. >> glenn: is it reasonable, you and i are both small government libertarian, we disagree on things sure, but