anyone in goldman sachs to rip anybody off. >> gregg: if you are diolg it willfully, if you are deceiving willfully. if you design an investment to decline in value, you don't tell your clients that and, indeed, your clients can only profit if it rises in value, isn't that not only a material fact they would want to know but willful intent to deceive? >> i think that the question is right now, is it criminal or was it just unethical. i think there is a really big difference here. it's really too early to know. did goldman sachs not tell what they should have told to the investors? maybe they didn't, but i think that is unethical. i don't think it's necessary criminal. >> gregg: the e-mails the employees are trashing the very investment they are selling. my goodness, what deception. >> it's not deception but maybe