something what we call beyond ordinary care. if you go and you just try to help, you can't be sued. you're immune from that. the reality is people don't want to get involved. they may be worried that if they do get involved they can face some type of criminal responsibility or a civil liability. so they just keep on walking by. it's a sad commentary on what goes on here. certainly in new york. >> laura: andrew, you touched on something that dr. a you can chime in on. this people that people might have that i don't want to get involved. look, i have enough problems. if i stop and then the police will be interviewing and i will turn around and it will be 2:00 in the morning that could also be coming into play, right? forget it's a human life involved. >> absolutely. and, listen, laura, i counsel families where you could say they are bystanders. in other words, there are families in which one person is terribly hurt by another family member and the family doesn't react. why? they don't want the trouble. they don't want to acknowledge it. there is denial that sets. in and i think it sets n this