that police could not respond to. a big motivator for the war on poverty. gave the government an excuse to engage in massive redistribution of wealth and social programs. it could say these have public safety values since the police cannot bring crime down the way we have to bring crime down is to take money from the rich and give it to the poor, otherwise they will cause social havoc in the streets. >> paul: so this means, whatever you think of welfare programs, whatever you think of job creation programs or food stamps, whatever their utility as redistribution and income maintenance programs, what you're saying is that those have almost zero utility as crime fighting programs. >> we should have known this after the 1960's, paul. >> paul: that makes sense. >> because the 60's saw a 43% increase in homicides nationally. at the time when the economy was growing and what was really growing were government jobs. you had massive government jobs