investigate a political enemy, isn't that involving a foreign government in our election, in the united states election, isn't that a serious problem that goes beyond just inappropriate conduct by a president? >> well, it's not quite the same thing as saying, hey, we want to involve the foreign government in somehow tampering with the actual election process itself. you're simply saying, assuming you take the extreme and take for its face value, which i do not believe you can prove that case and i don't believe they ever will. i believe the president's motives were to have corruption more broadly investigated, because the ukrainians had been involved in a lot of corruption and had been involved in our election in 2016, which is what really irritated that president. and they never had a chance to present those witnesses -- >> sir, if i could stop you -- >> assuming what you say is true -- >> but there's never been any type of established evidence that ukraine was specifically involved in tampering with the 2016 election. the intelligence community has -- >> well, there has been, there