land those lines in a way where they sound natural. the best example of this obviously last time was the harris/biden moment that then everyone talked about for 48 hours. i also think it's really hard for these guys who are on the first night because they only get, you know, 12 hours of the news cycle before we move on to the next big show. and so that time that they have to actually make their mark, people like beto and john hickenlooper, people that are sort of in danger of falling off the stage have to really come out there strong. >> and i wouldn't just assume everyone is going to be taking shots at warren and sanders. look at what happened with julian castro and beto o'rourke with the last debate. that felt personal. >> it was a little chippy. >> but he used that exchange, julian castro, to make a name for himself, raise more money and expand his campaign. so you might see some friction between the moderates themselves as they try to, as you said, stand out.