saying well, even if i don't love him, i think maybe he's the person who could best beat donald trump. look at all these numbers and what they are telling us. now it's early. >> for biden, the pressure is on for a good debate performance. >> 57% of independents say they would never vote for donald trump. that would be a red flashing light for him that the strategy that he's deploying right now is not really a great general election strategy if you want to get independents, particularly independent women back. >> my take away is the trend line. we're so early it's hard to say yes, this is it. elizabeth warren seems to be solidifying second. that's -- she's been in that position since that first debate and we've seen camilla go up and down and biden go down and up.