donald trump wanted to be part of the debate. wasn't necessarily part of the debate, which is good. because it wasn't a debate about donald trump. it was a debate about who was going to carry the flag for the democratic party in november 2020. i do think if you look at the quote/unquote winners, let's not talk about people. let's talk about manufactured moments. it's all about moments. julian castro certainly came out and was able to grasp it, but was almost too cute by half in so some ways meaning he was very successful. he clearly won the night. he is going to have a lot of media spoke tomorrow. >> take a step sidewas and tell people who what was happening. it was him and beto o'rourke. he had obviously been waiting a moment to go at beto o'rourke specifically, to your point about finding way to break out. that was someone who was a step or two, almost like a nascar race that car is one or two spots ahead. how do i pass that guy? how did he pull it off? >> they went right to the core issue of the state that they're both from, which of course is immigration. what julian castro tried to do