going back. >> the likely voter. >> they have to figure out who's actually going to vote. >> margaret sounds more skeptical of joe biden than you do. do you not have concerns about -- not concerns, that's not the wrong term. but -- do you not think that there are some weaknesses that joe biden has that we've seen in the last few weeks? his flip-flop on the hyde amendment, the parts of his climate change proposal that were lifted from liberal think tanks, plagiarism charge, which obviously -- from 1987. this gaffe that the "new york times" found in '87, '88, we would tell people that he marched for civil rights when he never marched for civil rights. >> at least he's not lifting from neil kenick. when you have that long a history in politics, you're going to have a lot of ghosts that can get thrown at you. >> you're normalizing plagiarism. >> i'm not normalizing plagiarism. i'm saying that, again, it's compared to what proposition, and donald trump has blown through a lot of weaknesses like joe biden's capacity for committing gaffes. i think the biggest hurdles he