worked with jared kushner for two years, and april ryan, white house correspondent for america urban radio networks. david, you've worked with him, written in-depth about him. what wept through your mind as you watched this interview? >> just somebody completely out of his depth. having a job he's completely unprepared for. he seemed completely unprepared for this interview and unable to answer even the most basic questions. >> that part was shocking. april, you're at the white house almost every day. you know how rare it is to hear from kushner. it isn't like the guy does a ton of interviews. the guy doesn't do any interviews. why would he ever agree to do something like this? >> it's interesting you say that, aaron, because jared kushner and i have talked one-on-one several times and i've asked him for interviews i i remember him telling me, you know, i have to give the first interview on prison reform to van jones because van jones has