this deep level of empathy for people that most people run from. you run toward. i think you have a strategy for building more empathy. and you talk about proximity. >> yeah, well i do thing think one of the problems politicians make is they make policies from a distance. and i don't think we can understand problems until we get closer to people who are suffering. people who are excluded people marginalized people who are poor. when you get close to parts of the communities where people are struggling you hear things you can't hear from a distance. you see things you can't see from a distance. and that dynamic is what allows us to come up with solutions. if you come in with a slugs you're not hearing or listen. you got to get there and listen. most of the us were taught that if there are bad parts of the communities we should stay as far away from the bad part as possible. i think if you are an electsed official if you are somebody caring about justice you have to do the opt zbliet that's right. >> get closer to the people marginalized and struggling go into jails and prisons. i just think we have an