ultimately would be the big fish in all of this. remember, this was an investigation into russian interference, relationship with the russians was a key part of this investigation, and that is what paul manafort was partially, they wanted him for that cooperation, because remember, it was he who shared campaign polling data, remember the special counsel's office said that was at the heart of their investigation, that relationship, that manafort had with this russian intelligence official. so that is what i think people need not forget. that is still going on. that is going to keep going on. and if the government, if the fbi could get people to cooperate, in these investigations, they're going to do it. and i think that's ultimately, is where paul manafort's help is what the fbi wanted. they wanted his help in that part of this investigation. >> quickly, caroline. >> yes, also, hindsight is 20/20, so it could have been that maybe yes, they were looking for a bigger fish besides the russians, and so they wanted to get these cooperation deals early on. if you look at the deals that were cut, they were early on in the investigation.