the reality is, if and when he starts running, don, he is second only to bernie sanders in having an incredibly formidable online fund-raising machine. and i think even though he's been, you know, sort of under the radar, that will probably kick in pretty quickly. >> so, do you think that's why he's gotten, as they call, so much free media, unearned media? he's on this cover of "vanity fair." there are people who have already declared, people who are very popular like kamala harris. >> absolutely. >> they don't have this kind of -- why him? >> he is a celebrity candidate. right now he is the celebrity candidate that is in the field. kamala harris has some of that. there's some excitement around her even though she hasn't been the policy force that elizabeth warren has been in the race so far or the ideological force that bernie sanders has been in the race. kamala harris certainly has -- >> i'm just using her as an example. >> exactly. >> but even bernie sanders, he gets -- he's not on the cover of "vanity fair," and he's already announced. he's declared. >> we went down to atlanta a couple weeks ago and did a long interview with stacey abrams,