of what's being said in this e-mail and the other e-mail depends on who you ask. >> and how is costello explaining? what is he saying these were all about? >> well, well, costello says that what this was is an effort to kind of keep the relationship between michael cohen and donald trump on track. he claims that michael cohen may have been worried about whether the president liked him or not and vice versa. and cohen sympathizers say that is not true, that what this is evidence of is dangling a pardon. and that that's what this was about and then when i spoke with costello, costello said, you know, that is utter nonsense. i was not dangling a pardon.