>> those people are then going to blame maduro. >> oh, you bet. >> when you talk about maduro has power thus far because the military, you know, is backing him, but as soon as that support dwindles, or is compromised, is that when he loses grip and guaido, you know, gains power? because he, you know -- >> the top level of the military is very loyal to him. the national guard troops out on the street. they are a military national police force. the military, military is really not out repressing people, it's the national guard. i think they are hesitant to do that. there, the junior officers enlisted people, their families are suffering the same effect that everybody else in venezuela is. how long are they going to stay loyal? >> what should the u.s. role be here? >> well, first of all, we done a very good job, so far, of