first. that's not important. that sometimes work and it sometimes doesn't. >> isn't the counter argument to that, well, if you're willing to lie in front of congress about things that aren't important about asking for a pardon or whether or not you wanted a job in the white house then what does that mean about the things that are really important? >> at the end of a trial, a judge says to the jury something like, you're allowed to consider the overall credibility of the witness based on particular untruths they may have told. and that's the job to make the argument. overall, the people that are watching and paying attention have to be persuaded on the points that were important, the truth was told. >> we still don't have a report from robert mueller but regardless, the reality is the