which, remember, is the one that is threatening to go into his business, into his company, it's now into the inaugural question. they are -- his lawyer has basically gone to war, rudy giuliani, with the southern district of new york, an office giuliani used to lead. so he knows very well how prosecutors take it when they get essentially the stakes raised as the president's lawyers have done. i think that there is a desire by sdny to run a fine-toothed comb for everything trump related and the chances that you find something are relatively high. >> go ahead, carl. and well, it's a terrific story that "the times" and maggie have done, from two points. one, it's a wide angle lens story in which "the times" has pulled out, pulled back and looked at the landscape of the last couple of years. at one overt and covert suggestion and attempt at obstruction by the president of