i think mandela represents our collective better intentions as a nation. >> anthony: all the things that could have gone terribly wrong, it's a remarkable thing how well it -- it went. >> percy: between 1990 and 1994, tough times, you know, intense fighting, black-on-black violence, black-on-white violence. are we going to descend into a black path? but we transcended that through that message of coming together regardless of the unresolved issues. >> anthony: to what extent is it really a rainbow nation? are things getting mixed? we like to think we live in a rainbow nation, but in fact, in the states, black and white live in to a great extent in different neighborhoods. it's only 19 years. in some ways it looks to me outside looking in, a little more gracefully mixed up than we've managed to pull off successfully in the states. >> percy: here, i mean, you've got black, white, colored, you know, all sorts of people here. but i think, in all fairness