also unconscious bias which we talk about a lot, and people want to deny. you don't have to be aware of it. sometimes it's just not being aware. >> blackface? kkk outfit? >> i'm talking about the friend who is saying, well, i know he's not a bigot. maybe he's not a bigot now. but certainly in that time, he should have been aware that this was offensive, and he could have over the years at least made the effort to address it. >> what about the defense that in '84 it wasn't bad, blackface, the way it is today? >> really? i almost said a bad word. it started with bull. >> oh. >> that's bull. i have people sending me yearbook pictures from louisiana, from the '70s and '80s saying, this is from lee high school.