want a shutdown even for a wall if they support a wall. but as berman just laid out, his approval number just doesn't move. i mean it just doesn't seem to impact him, like teflon. >> yeah. and part of this, i think, poppy, is the president is a good showman. he understands what makes good tv. he doesn't want to show all of his cards before the state of the union address. he wants to keep the drama and the tension sort of high. but i was in the cabinet room on friday when he ended up doing one of these supposed to be a quick pool spread and ends up being a half an hour news conference. it was interesting to listen to him test different messages on whether there's going to be a shutdown, whether he's going to do the emergency, whether it's going to be neither. he seemed to be, you know, hipting wi hinting with receipt aric that was ready to pull the trigger on the national emergency but wouldn't let himself be pinned down. we saw an interview that was conducted the same day even though it aired over the weekend. and also he was testing the idea