walls that we built hold beautifully. everybody knows that walls work. the border patrol has done an incredible job. but we need the help and the back jun of the wall. >> so he continues to say everybody knows walls work except there are a lot of experts who are saying walls don't do, are not as effective as the president is professing. so will he change his tune? does he have any incentive to change his tune? >> well, i learned long ago never to try to predict what president trump is going to do. however, i think there is a couple of things. he has sent conflicting signals on this, does it have to be a wall question, right? there have been various times, including in his national address, where he talked much more about border security as a whole. and you have people on capitol hill, saying well, this is a game of semantics, it isn't, it is a wall or not. if the president can convince his supporters that some kind of border security package is the