is not true. we all start chasing our tails, right or the shiny object, and he comes back the next day and says, no, no, that is not what i meant. what is the point? >> and i was going to add president trump keeps him in his employ. >> the point is to win in public opinion, right, david, to try and keep the president from getting impeached. it's not legal. it has nothing to do with mueller. this is about public opinion, and he's trying to get your mind off or your eye off the ball. that's exactly what he's doing and we keep falling for it. >> well, we're talking about it right now. >> exactly. he's winning. >> if this isn't something the that trump wanted, they wouldn't keep putting rudy giuliani out. he's getting us to chase them, getting us to doubt our sanity at times and meanwhile all this other stuff goes unexamined. >> i don't doubt my sanity because of rudy giuliani --