damage. i'm gonna go in, i'm gonna look around, i'm gonna see how things work. and i'll leave without disturbing anything. would most hackers say that that's okay? >> thomas: yes. yes. >> anthony: it's in the service of knowledge, that's -- >> thomas: that's okay for most the hackers in our communities. i was lucky, i got into a very big, big hacker community here in shanghai and met a lot of great mentors. >> anthony: started in business at 21? >> thomas: exactly. >> anthony: quite an accomplishment. >> thomas: i didn't go to the college. >> anthony: you didn't go to college? >> thomas: i didn't go to the college. >> anthony: why not? >> thomas: most professors are way behind the, uh, the -- the development speed of the communities. >> anthony: why? your -- >> thomas: because -- >> anthony: your country is so advanced in so many other ways, why in this area? >> thomas: it's a network problem here in china. uh, we have the gfw. it's a great firewall and it blocked a lot of, uh, important information websites inside china and a lot of people they cannot get the cutting-edge technologies. >> anthony: right. >> thomas: which we don't teach in college at all. >> anthony: mm-hmm. >> thomas: and, uh, so the human