joe biden still gets really strong numbers. he has that name recognition. people can identify with him early on the programs. joe biden is the biggest threat in terms of a challenger for donald trump. would you agree? >> i would agree. probably the most formidable candidate against donald trump. at the same time probably the least likely to be nominated any of those candidates. the big risk that democrats run right now is that they nominate somebody very far left like an elizabeth warren. if the republican party stays as pro trump as it is, i see the likelihood of a very serious independent or third party movement that will be center based. i think that much of the political center in this country feels very much left out of the conversation. the bases of the political parties, hard bases of the political parties seem to be driving the narratives as to who will get nominated and there's a backbone in the center of the country looking for something