because as dana is laying out, his information is credible. the information he's given them is substantial. do you -- i guess you don't need to trust him. do you see him as credible? >> well, listen, let me put my fbi hat on for a minute. what they used cohen for is to corroborate other information. remember, the guy that hasn't been talked about who has been cooperating i think since july is wisal brg, who is the chief financial officer to the trump organization. he's been cooperating with the special counsel since then. what we have now and what i found really interesting in cohen's sentencing, and i think the campaign finance issue is a side show to where i think the special counsel is going. and what they said, this is really important, they said he gave substantial information and corroboration to discreet russian activities and had contacts with the trump executive operation. if you think about that, that's a pretty small group of people. so that tells me that their