>> well, it is a conspiracy actually. you know, when you have -- there are three people involved, you know, we're talking about between the two women. and so this was -- and it was meant to be hidden. the idea that the president, you know, at the time he wasn't president, but he was running for office, didn't know that money spent to hide information from voters so that they -- the campaign wouldn't be affected somehow related to the campaign isn't plausible. >> kiersten -- >> let her finish. >> like i said, even if that's true, even if that's true -- i gave the example. if i tell my accountant to do something wrong and they do it, i'm still accountable for it. i don't understand why you think he's not accountable for his behavior. >> the fec has ruled on more than one occasion that these types of contributions are not necessarily illegal. and so -- and not necessarily have to be disclosed.