by the president's defenders, if he testifies in congress or if his name appears in the report. that's, you know -- and that's where things stand right now. >> laura, i mean, one of the things we know about this president is he's not exactly subtle in hiding what he actually thinks. sometimes, he's actually oddly transparent, perhaps even unintentionally so in conversations. so we have really no idea what he may have said to michael cohen over dinner at mar-a-lago or over the phone or at any point. we have heard, when the president was asked about, you know, the idea of a pardon for paul manafort, saying that nothing is off the table, which as a public statement is certainly something, you know, paul manafort and his team, no doubt, heard, as well. >> well, compare and contrast what's happening with michael cohen and paul manafort. one of the things that the president had to say about paul manafort, even compared him at one point, if you recall, to what al capone and how poorly he was being treated, as if he was