that roger stone has a lot of bluster and issues that he may not have direct knowledge. >> and not a lot of credibility. but that just adds to the list. now paul manafort has no more credibility as a witness at all because -- >> there is an entire cast of characters here who are not credible. these are not truth telling people. they have repeatedly lied to investigators. nearly everybody charged in the special counsel's investigation has included some kind of charge of lying to federal investigators or prosecutors. paul manafort experienced back before his virginia trial he had been pulled back from his supervised release because he was accused of witness tampering and making false statements. he had been witness tampering, writing op-eds when he was in detention -- >> does it surprise you the number of people who have lied to investigators in this case? >> it has been a number of people charged with lying. it speaks to the type of people.