had he behaved, had he fully cooperated, you know, he could have driven this sentence down even further had he been on good behavior. he didn't. he threw all of that out the window after all of this work with the mueller operation. >> but not enough for him. i mean, he's going to sit in jail regardless of how much he -- >> he's going to do some time. but at his age, you know, there's a big difference between five years or ten years. >> and 70. >> and life. >> yeah. >> yeah. okay. juliette, what did you want to say? >> no, just on the pardon issue, even if he assumes there is going to be a pardon, it is quite a calculation on his part. we all have kids. why do kids lie? because the truth is worse. so what's the truth for manafort? either implicates the trump family or it implicates a foreign government.