there have been studies that have examined a billion votes. what's going on here? let's take it to the debateers. jennifer grant home and rick santorum. brother santorum, do you know from whence the president is deriving this wisdom about the people walking in circles with the changed hats and shirts? >> i do not, but that doesn't mean it's never happened. i'm sure it has happened. >> why are you sure it has happened? >> look, the bottom line is people do commit voter fraud. i mean, people commit fraud on a variety of different things. people lie, cheat and steel every day. if you don't think they do it during an election, you're deluding your several. the question is do we have laws in place and systems in place to limit that. and that's one of the things republicans have been all about, making sure there is integrity in the voting process, and i do agree with you that i don't think it helps anybody, the president or our party or anybody to go out and make specious claims about voter fraud that are unsubstantiated because it's a serious business and i do believe it does exist.