was always called "el despoblado" -- the unpopulated zone. which it never really was. ♪ ♪ >> anthony: born and bred near here? >> roger: yeah, a couple hundred miles east, not far. >> anthony: that's considered close around here. >> roger: close. the forest still makes me uneasy. surrounded by trees, i get uneasy because i can't see. i can't see far enough. >> anthony: now, i guess unlike a lot of texans who take a rather romantic view of those early days, you seem to view it in a darker prism. >> roger: it is dark. the story of texas can get a little too polished. it was a conquest, and people forget that. there were people here. the spanish and the mexican authorities wanted to exterminate the apaches. they created "the society for the extermination of the barbarians." >> anthony: so, the classic