the first line, deny that this happened. >> this is a nondenial denial. >> reporter: exactly. >> stay with us. i want to bring in two of the loudest people i know, david gergen, and kirsten powers. so david, what does it say two of the president's top aides were arguing so intensely outside the oval office, is that -- i mean, is that normal having worked in white houses? >> no. i think when bob woodward turns his hardback into a paperback, he's going to have plenty of material for a postscript about the chaos in the white house. we have two very strong willed individuals here, who have been used to asserting themselves and everybody else getting out of the way and letting them have their way. and now they're clashing, and it's not totally surprising, the issues surrounding the borders are getting sharper. president trump clearly wants to