if you had been on these phone calls, don, you would have -- your head would have fallen off from laughling. i'd call him up, tim o'brien and i, our producers have been through all this stuff. here's the best number that we have. this is what you're worth. he would double it every time. no matter what the number was. >> you report that. >> we would have to negotiate amongst ourselves to low ball him just to hope that when he doubled the number it was closer to what our reporting was and he would never show us anything. like an idiot, i threw out the letter that he sent that was clearly written by him, although on legal stationery. at the time, where am i going to keep this? who knew he was going to be president? my producer at the time, big shot guy in charge of all investigative reporting at abc, remembers the same thing. he's about the sell. >> it's the same thing writers and people who work with fortunate, the richest people, they tell the exact or similar stories that you tell. but you're right. he's a great salesman. he got a whole bunch of people to believe he is self-made even