out their extensive reporting that they have, he was a million mayor by the time he was 8 years old. that is not self-made at all. he's known to not tell the truth, but this -- this is big. what do you think this does to the president? >> i don't think he was that precocious at 8 to make a million dollars a year. but what's interesting to me is the big picture this is going to fit in, and the reaction his core and people in general are going to have. this came up in the nixon years, and it became actually a part of his impeachment proceedings where they considered an article of impeachment for his creting -- cheating on his taxes where they overvalued a gift he made of his vice presidential papers and the public got it. they got tax fraud. they didn't understand all the nuances of obstruction of justice but the man on the street understood not paying taxes so it will be interesting to see how this plays. >> and karen, to what kaitlan