back and forth. and we have only seen a small portion of the numbers, but when they were redacted, it was merely embarrassing that this could be going on within the fbi or within the department of justice, and that's not reason enough to withhold documents. i think that's where because of losing that credibility, it really hurt the department of justice. when i ran the bureau's organized crime program, i oversaw hundreds of affidavits, and we were very strict because we didn't want to abuse the authorities that we had to approve wire taps because we might have it then questioned on all wire taps. >> so -- go ahead. >> have you seen evidence of abuse of the fisa system? because you're saying that, you know, lack of embarrassment or desire not to be embarrassed is not a justification for not releasing thisser but there's really no precedent, is there, for releasing fisa warrants, et cetera, or do you think that should be changed? >> well, maybe.