i don't think it goes to a jail cell for anyone, not for anyone. >> so jason, to that point you've actually had the chance to depose allen weisselberg when you were prosecuting the trump university lawsuit. what was he like during that deposition, how far did his loyalty to the president extend, and we also have some hints in other recent cases as well, don't we? >> we do, john. and the reality was he was a fairly cooperative witness. he is definitely loyal to mr. trump. he is one of the few people who refer to him as donald. he's been with the family for a better part of a half century, and as a witness he was somewhat reluctant, but i would not say that he was -- that he was dishonest in anyway. i think he did provide testimony that could be interpreted as potentially damaging to mr. trump. he mentioned the frequency of which those two interact. they're on the same floor, and there was certainly information that mr. weisselberg learned