organization solved the difficult problems in whatever way he had to and in that business world my suspicion is if you push on cohen, you're going to find that donald trump may have been involved in business transactions or family members of the trumps were involved in business transactions that will create liability and exposure for them. so that's probably a greater problem for mr. trump than this case. >> quickly, i would say that perhaps the only reason cohen may not cooperate would be if he thinks he would some way get a pardon for the president. clearly the president doesn't like him very much. >> and lanny davis says he's not looking for that. >> but it was just a few months ago the president pardoned dinesh di souza for campaign finance violations. >> and his defense was that it was a vindictive prosecution.