cases because there is actually bullying going on, despite the good efforts of the first lady. but the whole idea of the office of the president does carry a weight to it, and it does -- you talk about leadership. that is the ultimate in somebody at the top saying to somebody in any community i see you, i hear you, i care about you. >> you know what drives me crazy? this is a tale of two president sis. literally, you have the president of the united states this week met with republican governors to talk about how to do criminal justice reform, how to do prison reform. and then he turns literally around in the same news cycle, destroys all that coverage, and picks a dumb fight. so you got the policy moving in this direction. >> he's not dumb. he clearly sees it that there is a political advantage among the people -- >> you mean, for the quote/unquote racist base? >> i'm not saying it's a racist base. i'm saying for his base, and i'm not calling them racist.