try to argue why would gates be lying about all this when most of the time when he wasn't stealing manafort's money, manafort was the one benefitting from it. i think it could have been a risky move to put him on given the case went in so well. >> if you're a juror sitting in this courtroom, there aren't any cameras, we go by bits and pieces we get, we know down to the color in the courtroom. i was reading yesterday describing the death stair manafort was giving gates up on the stand. today now they're starting to look somewhat in the same direction at one another. how much of that matters to jurors? >> it matters a lot because jurors are watching every single thing that's going on, every nuance, every glance. they're impacted by this. you know what i found interesting, when he was able to -- when manafort says outloud to his lawyer, no, you got the wrong exhibit number, essentially, it's 257 i think what it was. what is the jury going to take