been sent back. we've heard about back channels the administration likes to have. we don't know if there's a pardon deal on the table or if that's been mentioned. at this point, i feel like he keeps his mouth shut and moves forward. this is a paper case. it will be easy to prove. i expect he's going to be convicted of it, and at the end of the day, he's looking at a long time in jail if, in fact, trump doesn't come in and give him a pardon? . >> are you insinuating there's fear about -- you said he was moving money for the russians? >> well, he's charged with money laundering. we know he's had involvement with folks of a less savory nature. at this point he's decided to keep his mouth shut and go through the process. knowing if he gets convicted, i'm sure trump knows what he knows. that is manafort thinks that maybe some leverage to help him seek a pardon later on. >> glen, manafort so far hasn't had a lot of luck here. he was thrown in jail by a d.c. judge over allegations that he was witness tampering, and the virginia judge declined to