more about that interesting trump tower meeting that he was part of. and other interesting -- you were part of it too? you were chuckling. >> i think the 305 years in prison is enough leverage to get him to talk. doesn't have to be anything else. >> but if he really faces that prospect. >> why did not he take the deal? >> because he thinks he is nts in perha innocen innocent perhaps. >> but it is easy to get prosecutions in this case. do you think he is counting on therebeing a pardon coming his way? >> i think he shouldn't count on anything. he needs to mount a robust defense. i saw the 35 witnesses including his former partner rick gates will testify against him. if you looked at the indictment, it is receipretty detailed and of nitty-gritty, changing numbers on bank statements and things that are really kind of in the weeds that have nothing to do with the campaign.